jonathan dough

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Posts by jonathan dough

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  115

  Angel Eye needs an education on the identity and nature of Christ

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  angel eye wrote:.

  john 14 v 1 shows jesus and jehovah are not 1.. acts 2 v 4 and 17 clearly show the holy spirit isnt a person,its gods active force.. john 14 v 28 is total proof,otherwise jesus would clearly be insane saying such things .

  toomany scriptures to prove it...but just a few for you to recall,i guess its hard when your reading false claims to remember the truth.. .

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  jonathan dough

  (lillith wipes snot on Jonathan) ( for being a total Loser!)

  Oh, come now. You can come up with better insults than that. Care to debate the issues?

  JD II
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  115

  Angel Eye needs an education on the identity and nature of Christ

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  angel eye wrote:.

  john 14 v 1 shows jesus and jehovah are not 1.. acts 2 v 4 and 17 clearly show the holy spirit isnt a person,its gods active force.. john 14 v 28 is total proof,otherwise jesus would clearly be insane saying such things .

  toomany scriptures to prove it...but just a few for you to recall,i guess its hard when your reading false claims to remember the truth.. .

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  jonathan dough

  Being shunned by family and friends is a far bigger obstacle.

  I was referring to intellectual and Biblical obstacles. 1) Trinity, 2) 144,000, and 3) 607

  The Holy Trilogy of their faith, although some might disagree with this list. But the Trinity is the one that seems, in my opinion, to be the biggest stumbling block.
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  115

  Angel Eye needs an education on the identity and nature of Christ

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  angel eye wrote:.

  john 14 v 1 shows jesus and jehovah are not 1.. acts 2 v 4 and 17 clearly show the holy spirit isnt a person,its gods active force.. john 14 v 28 is total proof,otherwise jesus would clearly be insane saying such things .

  toomany scriptures to prove it...but just a few for you to recall,i guess its hard when your reading false claims to remember the truth.. .

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  jonathan dough

  This isn't a stalemated debate but still has a lot of traction. It is a direct response to her statement that "I guess its hard when your reading false claims to remember the truth." The Trinity doctrine are not 'false claims,' and fairness dictates that I'm entitled to respond to that. And it is not just between and for the benefit of those debating but also the hundreds peering over our shoulders. The Trinity is the biggest obstacle for JWs in leaving the organization because they don't think there is any place else to turn to if theTrinity is false.

  As for 1914, well, that is a bit off topic but easlily answered. 1914 is impossible because 607 is impossible and I've got ample proof written right here that buries their theory in its entirety with what amounts to mathematical certainty.

  http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
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  115

  Angel Eye needs an education on the identity and nature of Christ

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  angel eye wrote:.

  john 14 v 1 shows jesus and jehovah are not 1.. acts 2 v 4 and 17 clearly show the holy spirit isnt a person,its gods active force.. john 14 v 28 is total proof,otherwise jesus would clearly be insane saying such things .

  toomany scriptures to prove it...but just a few for you to recall,i guess its hard when your reading false claims to remember the truth.. .

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  jonathan dough

  The Bible is not dogmatic crap. Neither is the Trinity doctrine. And if you read the post you would understand that it is a matter of correction and clarification, and, no one is cramming anything down anyone's throat. It is a matter of setting the record straight. Angel Eye and Reniaa have gone out of their way to distort what the Trinity doctrine teaches and I'm within my rights to clarify things for the benefit of others out there who have been mislead by the Society. You have done the same.
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  115

  Angel Eye needs an education on the identity and nature of Christ

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  angel eye wrote:.

  john 14 v 1 shows jesus and jehovah are not 1.. acts 2 v 4 and 17 clearly show the holy spirit isnt a person,its gods active force.. john 14 v 28 is total proof,otherwise jesus would clearly be insane saying such things .

  toomany scriptures to prove it...but just a few for you to recall,i guess its hard when your reading false claims to remember the truth.. .

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  jonathan dough

  Angel eye wrote:

  John 14 v 1 shows Jesus and Jehovah are not 1.

  Acts 2 v 4 and 17 clearly show the Holy spirit isnt a person,its Gods active force.

  John 14 v 28 is total proof,otherwise Jesus would clearly be insane saying such things

  toomany scriptures to prove it...but just a few for you to recall,I guess its hard when your reading false claims to remember the truth.

  REPLY:

  I'm sorry but you don't have the slightest clue what the Trinity doctrine teaches. Re: John 14:1, Christians do not believe that the man of the God-man hypostatic union is the Almighty; the created humanity is not the Almighty, God the Father. That is the first deception your group perpetuates.

  Secondly, you do not understand what the term "person" means in the trinitarian world. It is not a human being like you or I. The Holy Spirit is spirit, and even though it is also referred to as God's power or force, it also meets the definition of a trinitarian person, a Spirit person, which can fill an individual. If you are honest with yourself take a look at these pages for a clear explanation of the Holy Spirit and related topics.

  http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#1

  The mistake you are making is focusing on only one verse when there are many. You are wagging the dog by the tail, but even the Society encourages one to examine all of the evidence, right? And weigh it all?

  Third, at John 14:28 where Jesus said that the "the Father is greater than I" it was the created creature Jesus, not God, who was speaking. This is elemental trinitarianism, basic Christianity, and the church fathers of the first centuries were fully aware of these apparent contradictions that you are stumbling over. You should educate yourself to the fundamentals rather than misleading people with the JWs' version of Trinitarianism which is patently false. They know that, and have managed to fool you as well. If you don't understand the difference between immanent and economic trinity you should probably stay out of the discussion until you get a better grasp.

  Personally, I would start with proof texts that Jesus was, and is, God, right here. You might learn something of value. The Society is 1,000 percent wrong in this regard.

  http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#20

  JD II
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  22

  Can you prove that only 144,000 anointed JWs go to heaven?

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one core jw teaching is the idea that only 144,000 go to heaven, which is wrong.

  here is the first of many reasons why that teaching can't be sustained by scripture.

  any other reasons you can think of?.

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  jonathan dough

  Like I said, proving the existence of Jesus according to your standard is pointless because belief in the resurrection of the dead is a required belief for Christians and that can't be proven. So all other "proofs" you mentioned are meaningless and a waste of time.
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  30

  The name of the Father is "Jesus".

  by Chalam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am sure the title of this thread will be a little contentious with some, certainly any active jws but here goes, read the biblical text for yourself.. .

  john 17:11-12 (new international version)11i will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and i am coming to you.

  holy father, protect them by the power of your namethe name you gave meso that they may be one as we are one.

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  jonathan dough

  DD: Why do you have "Father" and no Son or Spirit?

  REPLY: The Father usually refers to God, and God is by definition Son and Spirit, the triune natured God. Usually “Father is not a title for the first person of the Trinity but a synonym for God” (Encyclopedia of Religion, 54). No need to mention all three at the same time.

  JD II
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  26

  Symbolisms in Revelation

  by snowbird in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  revelation 7:-8 i heard the count of those who were sealed: 144,000!.

  they were sealed out of every tribe of israel:.

  12,000 sealed from judah,.

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  jonathan dough

  Revelation 7:4 literally states that the 144,000 elect are virgin men: “These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact they are virgins.” But as anyone familiar with the Jehovah’s Witnesses knows, the 144,000 are comprised of men and women, married and single; they regard these provisions symbolically as well.
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  22

  Can you prove that only 144,000 anointed JWs go to heaven?

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one core jw teaching is the idea that only 144,000 go to heaven, which is wrong.

  here is the first of many reasons why that teaching can't be sustained by scripture.

  any other reasons you can think of?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jonathan dough

  Revelation 7:4 literally states that the 144,000 elect are virgin men: “These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact they are virgins.” But as anyone familiar with the Jehovah’s Witnesses knows, the 144,000 are comprised of men and women, married and single; they regard these provisions symbolically as well.

  http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
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  22

  Can you prove that only 144,000 anointed JWs go to heaven?

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one core jw teaching is the idea that only 144,000 go to heaven, which is wrong.

  here is the first of many reasons why that teaching can't be sustained by scripture.

  any other reasons you can think of?.

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  2. 
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  jonathan dough

  Here is some more symbolism in Rev.

  First, Rev. 7:4-8 states that the 144,000 came from every tribe of the Israelites and then lists the names of what appear to be the original twelve tribes, but are not. As the Jehovah’s Witnesses point out “there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the twelve tribes. See Numbers 1:4-16” (Reasoning 166, 167). As such, the Jehovah’s Witnesses view the twelve tribes of the 144,000 symbolically.

  Secondly, the sealed 144,000 listed are Jews, yet the Jehovah’s Witnesses regard this as symbolic as well for they believe they are comprised of both Jews and gentiles. (Reasoning, 166, 167).

  Third, whereas the listed 144,000 are made up of twelve distinct groups of twelve thousand members each, the Jehovah’s Witnesses also regard these numbers as symbolic. They have never classified or categorized those who go to heaven in twelve groups of 12,000 yet are quick to calculate them literally to arrive at 144,000 (12 x 12,000 = 144,000).

  Fourth, the “seal on the foreheads of the servants” (Rev. 7:3), and the Lamb and His Father’s names which are written on the foreheads of the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1) represent figuratively, for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, God’s final approval. In their words, “God’s holy spirit serves as a seal that gives those sealed a token in advance of their inheritance, a heavenly one” (Insight, 253, 254). It is symbolic.

  Can any JWs prove this wrong?

  JD II